"The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it." -Roseanne Barr

[mcgillianaire]

A contender for the Labour leadership contest wishes he had assassinated Margaret Thatcher in the 80s and is applauded loudly. A twenty-six year-old accountant in South Yorkshire tweets about blowing his local airport sky high due to bad weather and is convicted.

Meanwhile, Harriet Harman the acting leader of the Labour Party believes half the cabinet should be made up of women. And there are more women Labour MPs than in all the other parties put together, but they make up just under a third (81 out of 258) of all Labour MPs. She says "Labour men are great - but they are not twice as good as the women". Fair enough, but her arithmetic falls short. 1/3rd women MPs should equal 1/3 cabinet posts right? Besides if she's so keen on gender parity, why didn't she and others join the leadership challenge?

Comments

[dubaiwalla.livejournal.com]

1/3rd women MPs should equal 1/3 cabinet posts right?
I don't think it's quite as black and white as that.

You could easily argue that if there are more women in top positions, women will be encouraged to run for more positions at every level, believing Westminster was no more a boys' club. More of them would then be considered by the committees picking candidates, new and talented female MPs would be elected, and then the number of women in top leadership positions would eventually be half without any intervention. But the new equilibrium would not be possible without action to enforce parity first.

[mcgillianaire.livejournal.com]

Of course. I was merely following her arithmetic to its logical conclusion. A third of women would double the current cabinet which has just four out of 23! I'm all for women's empowerment to higher positions in all walks of life but I'm not keen on measures such as these and all-women shortlists. There does seem to be a general problem with women getting picked as prospective candidates even though many make up the lists. I prefer solutions such as these (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/14/immigrant-women-politics-denmark). Despite the lack of women leaders at least the Labour Party have achieved significant levels of women and BME empowerment. There is not a single BME Lib Dem MP in this Parliament. But watch this space! :)

[taxlady.livejournal.com]

That Kvinfo program is cool. But, as Rushanara Ali said, it would be better if wasn't limited to immigrant women.

I also think that "affirmative action" should be limited to choosing the person from a less represented group, when two candidates seem equal.

[mcgillianaire.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

And yeh, that seems reasonable.

[loganberrybunny.livejournal.com]

Fairly simple, really. Both McDonnell and Chambers should have been told in no uncertain terms not to be so bloody stupid and sent away with fleas in their ears. Much as I hate Thatcher, and much as I have a sneaking regard for those who keep a bottle of something on ice for the day she leaves this earth, joking about assassinating someone who was nearly assassinated (in Brighton) is going too far. On the other hand, treating the Twitter guy as a potential terrorist is silly in the other direction: if he'd actually been on a plane when he said it, that would have been different.

I find it bizarre that Harman hasn't entered the leadership race, actually. For all that she's often mocked for her right-on views, she's a pretty effective performer, knows how to work the system (nobody expected her to win the deputy leadership) and has done quite well in the Commons as the temporary leader. Agreed about the arithmetic, though.

[mcgillianaire.livejournal.com]

Agreed...

...and agreed.

[lctrc-gtr-dde.livejournal.com]

A contender for the Labour leadership contest wishes he had assassinated Margaret Thatcher in the 80s and is applauded loudly. A twenty-six year-old accountant in South Yorkshire tweets about blowing his local airport sky high due to bad weather and is convicted.

The accountant should have been investigated to see if he really was a threat and if not, then ignore him. As for regrets or plans that involve time machines, those ought to be ignored as well. I don't see why either should be convicted.. they are both equally within the norms of English hyperbole.


they make up just under a third (81 out of 258) of all Labour MPs.
Since she's talking about cabinet, what is the proportion of women in the Labour shadow cabinet?

Labour men are great - but they are not twice as good as the women
I read her comment not as a serious mathematical analysis but as a subtle jab at UK democracy - with an allusion to less democratic countries where women are considered to have half the worth of men. But even if she did mean it as you read it I don't follow your 1/3rd women MPs should equal 1/3 cabinet posts right? logic.

There's nothing that says cabinet should be proportional to the demographics of the MPs and she doesn't suggest that either. If we assume she believes that the best people out of the MPs should be in cabinet, then her statement is still consistent. She believes that there are currently enough women MPs good enough to make up half of the best of the elected MPs (cabinet). But presumably she believes the fact that they still won't end up in cabinet is because of lingering bias in favour of men and to correct for such a bias you would need a (presumably temporary but indefinite) rule to enforce fairness.


Besides if she's so keen on gender parity, why didn't she and others join the leadership challenge?
I don't see what one has to do with the other. Presumably there can be only one leader.. so whoever wins there won't be gender parity (unless like the New Zealand Greens UK Labour adopts a co-leadership policy). She's clearly more interested in the demographics of the cabinet.

[mcgillianaire.livejournal.com]

You can read the accountant's case report here (http://jackofkent.blogspot.com/2010/05/paul-chambers-disgraceful-and-illiberal.html). It's not that long.

>what is the proportion of women in the Labour shadow cabinet?
6 out of 27.

>I read her comment not as a serious mathematical analysis but as a...
C'est possible but I don't think that's what she meant. Here's a longer version of what she said: "We have some excellent experienced women and some brilliant new women MPs. We still do have twice as many men MPs as women. The Labour men are great – but they are not twice as good as the women – so I want the PLP when we revise our rules for shadow cabinet elections to have 50.50 men and women in the shadow." She was clearly referring to the current ratio of male to female Labour MPs.

As for my 1/3rd for 1/3rd logic, perhaps I should've linked it to the blog entry (http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2010/06/the-problem-with-harriet-harmans-maths/) that inspired it. A clumsy sentence and one in which I wasn't making a serious point or stating my own opinion. If that makes sense. Which probably also explains why dubaiwalla took me to task for it. I knew it was not black and white but I'm also kinda glad I did write it. Both your well-reasoned arguments will save me coming up with it myself, the next time it crops into a conversation. :)

>There's nothing that says cabinet should be proportional to the demographics of the MPs and she doesn't suggest that either.
Agreed.

>I don't see what one has to do with the other.
Replace "gender parity" with "female empowerment".