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mcgillianaireFrom, Disorientations: A Society in Flux: Kuwait in the 1950s (Middle Eastern Cultures, Vol 19), by Peter Lienhardt
Delhi set for 2016 Olympic Bid!
Delhi's Olympic Bid
List of 2016 Summer Olympics Bids
Tonight is supposed to be the coldest night of the year yet and tomorrow (14th) the worst of the winter! One estimate, with windchill, predicts -48^Celsius. This should be taken into due consideration when reading any of the replies/comments from the guys in Montreal. ;-)
Dubaiwalla, yes we did miss you. Also, I know there are a few others reading the pages. Please leave your indelible mark (refer to Bio). If any of you have any friends who might be interested in writing on these pages, do not hesitate to send the word. I don't plan/want to keep the discussions on purely India, either. The Olympics thing just sort out jumped out of nowhere. Oh yeh, do keep in mind, India has been awarded the 2010 Commonwealth and just hosted a successful Afro-Asian Games late last year. Most of the top athletes dropped out but if you knew the politics that went into it, it was a feat by itself to host it finally! (Oh yeh, and Frankie Fredericks was there...)
On that note, and after another fulfilling day of nothingness, I bid adieu and goodnight. I'm enjoying what I've been reading so far. Oh yeh, Cris, don't fall into the Brisbane Trap. Trust me, years of experience. :-)
Cheers!
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no subject
Date: 2004-01-13 08:30 pm (UTC)oh another thing. apparently some kuwaiti captains came down to india for trainign with the indian navy. got their asses whooped and scrammed in 4 months..it was a 6 month course. the indian navy s been unapologetic. heres a the link.. http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/world/Viewdet.asp?ID=1763&cat=a
some juicy excerpts
The Indian Navy insists the trainees have to be "put through the paces" and that there can be no compromise on the regimen. "This is only a reflection of the high standard of training imparted by the Indian navy," a senior officer said. "The Kuwait Navy needs to be concerned that its officers were unable to cope up," he pointed out. On its part, the Indian Navy was observing a certain leniency with the Kuwaitis, as it does with many foreign trainees.
The Indian Navy has denied the Kuwaitis were maltreated but indicated that they were soft, expected "five-star treatment" and were unable to take the rigour of training.
Foreign personnel from certain Gulf countries under training with the Indian Navy have been provided additional residential facilities of soft furnishing and air conditioning on payment by their governments," a navy spokesman said
need i say more... i mean i kno some of u come from arab countries...but give me a break... arabs import maids cos they d make horrible maids..in fact theyd make horrible anythings... seems like they ve only jus mastered gunpowder..hmm mayb they ll catch up...or mayb not...
no subject
Date: 2004-01-13 08:59 pm (UTC)here goes again
http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/world/Viewdet.asp?ID=1763&cat=a
Yeah!
Date: 2004-01-13 11:54 pm (UTC)And who are you, good sir? Your analysis is refreshingly frank.
-Pappu
Pappu: Something I came across...
Date: 2004-01-13 10:41 pm (UTC)- Tom Moody and Alan Mullaly were in that team. The latter, more surprising since I just realized it took him nearly a decade of first class cricket before he made his Test debut.
- Why don't they have such series more often these days? It can't be a case of too much international cricket ... this is @ the first-class/domestic level.
- Check out the latest edition of S Rajesh's Number's Game (http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/JAN/041165_COL-STATS_09JAN2004.html) on CricInfo (http://www.cricinfo.com).
Re: Pappu: Something I came across...
Date: 2004-01-13 11:48 pm (UTC)Hmmm. I think the ABC book had the scorecards to all of the matches. I did notice an RR Singh in the Tamil Nadu team. Still, he was old in the 1999 WC.
The WA side was quite a good one - James Brayshaw (now commentator on domestic matches and football for Ch9), Wood played test cricket, along with Moody, Veletta was a member of the 1987 WC win, Wayne Andrews was one of my favourites growing up in Perth, Chris Matthews was a very good left-arm paceman an first-class level (his rule on getting out tailenders - fingers, throat, toes in consecutive balls). Capes I remember. Mullally, of course. And Bruce Yardley, an off-spinner who gripped the ball like the Vulcan greeting symbol (you have seen Star Trek, haven't you?). Yardley is one of the worst TV commentators Australia has ever produced. He used to do the weekend afternoons of the WA home Shield games for Ch9 Perth. He and Mick Malone were both awful.
One of those two commentators also did the Perth Heat baseball games. "And the new batsman, Greg Jelks, walks to the crease..."
La Chine et les JO
Date: 2004-01-14 12:01 am (UTC)No, it didn't. If hosting the Games will make them improve their human rights record, then I'll soften my view. But I don't know whether that's happening or not, so I'll leave it at saying I fully disagreed with the decision to give Beijing the Olympics in 2008.
It was a warm and humid 38 here the other week. And a tip - when the temperature is below -40, give it in Fahrenheit, because it sounds colder. -54 degrees F!
My day of nothingness was not fulfilling. I got nothing done on conformal field theory. The only useful thing I did was to refund my fatally ill bus ticket. And I walked to Toowong in the rain (with an umbrella, but my legs and arms and shoes still got soaked). Good fun while I was in it.
Re: La Chine et les JO
Date: 2004-01-14 04:37 am (UTC)Re: La Chine et les JO
Date: 2004-01-14 05:39 am (UTC)That's exactly what I was thinking...
Re: La Chine et les JO
Date: 2004-01-14 02:29 pm (UTC)Re: La Chine et les JO
Date: 2004-01-15 06:32 am (UTC)Hehehehe
Date: 2004-01-15 04:57 pm (UTC)-Pappu
Re: La Chine et les JO
Date: 2004-01-14 06:30 am (UTC)Pappu Sir, I will keep that in mind next time. Thanks.
Also, I thank you for your kind views on the 2008 Olympics but you were also so kind as to not comment on the 2016 Dilli bid. If that (2016 being awarded to Dilli), the impossible(?), were to happen, would you also "fully disagree with that decision?" :-)
Temperature is -38^C (with wind chill, -27^C without) as I head off to Management Accounting...
Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-14 02:38 pm (UTC)I don't have anything against Delhi hosting the 2016 Games. It's not like the Indian government brutally suppresses anyone who practises a religion, say. Sure, there's poverty, but it's a (fairly) good democratic country. And all such countries have the right to go into masses of debt by staging the Olympics.
Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-14 06:03 pm (UTC)Chennai, on the other hand has a slightly different story in which nobody really knows the exact origin of either Chennai or Madras. There are several conflicting theories. The most accurate predictions are found in S.Mutiah's "Madras (Re)Discovered" which is the most comprehensive text outlining and describing the evolution and history of India's 4th largest city and "cultural capital." It should also in my opinion be the place where the first Indian Olympics should be held, and that too in the year 2024. :-)
On the topic of anglification/anglizication of (place) names etc., I did think Calcutta was better than Kolkata, but that could also be influenced by the fact that a Tamilian (South Indian?) sweet has a similar name and so it just doesn't sound right together. What kind of logic is that?
Then there is Thiruvananthapuram which became Trivandrum during the British era, Kochi became Cochin, Kozhikode became Calicut (this was due to the Portuguese b*ds), Allapuzha became Allepey, Koyaimbathur became Coimbatore, Kanpoor became Cawnpore etc. etc.
Unfortunately it's been nearly an hour since I started typing this message and I've lost my flow of thought. Don't bother commenting on the place names. I dunno where I was trying to go with all of it. Just feel enlightened with some new and extensive relatively useless information. Oh, but if you are interested ... Coimbatore is the nearest airport to where I come from in Tamil Nadu. Now why anybody would be interested to know that, I have no idea.
L8erz...
PS: Check out The Day in Photos (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3396153.stm) [BBC World]
Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-14 08:12 pm (UTC)Sorry. But any country that has such a ridiculously long name as Thiruvananthapuram deserves to have its names fixed.
Re: the Tree, Van and a Drum...
Date: 2004-01-15 12:08 am (UTC)You better be joking/sarcastic because of the historical and political implications that can be made from that statement! ;-)
I was curious to know your views on another topic though. Do you think the pronounced European military imperialism that took place all over the world right upto the mid 20th century was justified in their putpose, mission and actions taken against several self-contained nation like units @ the time? I'm sure you know what i'm probably trying to get @ here, but it would be nice, all the same to receive an honest reply. I get a funny feeling you will justify their "work" because otherwise chances are you'd never have been born in Australia, if at all.
Re: the Tree, Van and a Drum...
Date: 2004-01-15 12:50 am (UTC)The Dutch and Spanish tended to be extremely brutal, and this was unjustified. The British were quite restrained, in general. I don't know about the French or the Belgians.
As a general principle, I have no problem with the colonialism that was practised. It helped the West advance, and those advancements have allowed the rest of the world to follow.
Re: the Tree, Van and a Drum...
Date: 2004-01-15 07:18 am (UTC)Oh really?
Colonialism was wrong. And there were no saintly colonial powers. The Dutch and Spanish were not the only ones to do horrible things.
It helped the West advance
So far, so good...
and those advancements have allowed the rest of the world to follow.
Err, no.
It led to a massive imbalance in wealth between the West and the rest of the world, one which has still not been resolved. It has also led to much strife in former colonial lands, as the British in particular were experts at using divide et impera to the fullest possible extent, exacerbating small differences between castes, tribes, followers of different religions and so on in order to cling to power better. This has manifested itself today in everything from vote bank politics to border disputes between nations.
I will grant you that in the process, many good things were also brought to the East, ranging from technology to the concept of full social equality.
However, if you have no real problem with a system that allowed an Englishman to beat to death his Indian servant and then pay only a small fine for the crime, I would really have to question what, if anything, you do have a problem with.
(Sorry if I'm a bit combative today)
Re: the Tree, Van and a Drum...
Date: 2004-01-15 02:29 pm (UTC)Yes. Compare to what happened in South America. Just what proportion of Indians now worship Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour?
The Dutch and Spanish were not the only ones to do horrible things.
Scale, dubaiwalla, scale. So the British killed a few hundred Indians in 1919. No doubt there were other massacres. This pales into insignificance next to the massive cultural genocide and murders inflicted on the South Americans. Indians tend to see only their own experience and think very badly of the British. Look to the rest of the world. As another example, Kashmir isn't an important conflict in terms of human loss, when compared to the bloodshed in Africa.
It led to a massive imbalance in wealth between the West and the rest of the world, one which has still not been resolved.
I think you'll find that life expectancy in the developing world is improving quite rapidly. Some countries had to improve first. The imbalance started to correct itself in the 1960's, and continues to this day.
This has manifested itself today in everything from vote bank politics to border disputes between nations.
Colonialism caused computer viruses as well.
However, if you have no real problem with a system that allowed an Englishman to beat to death his Indian servant and then pay only a small fine for the crime, I would really have to question what, if anything, you do have a problem with.
I didn't say it was perfect, just that overall, it was a good thing for the world.
Rebuttal, Part I
Date: 2004-01-15 03:14 pm (UTC)Indians tend to see only their own experience and think very badly of the British. Look to the rest of the world.
Continued...
Rebuttal, Part I continued...
Date: 2004-01-15 03:16 pm (UTC)Continued...
Rebuttal Part I Cont'd and Conclusion.
Date: 2004-01-15 03:38 pm (UTC)Numbers can tend to deceive in terms of the widespread (global) impact a particular conflict has in one part of the world as another.
The biggest mistake certain European/Western nations made in their history was to get involved in other people's affairs for reasons opposite or contrary to doing good for everybody. They went in with a personal agenda, most often @ a time when the people of the nation and the nation itself was vulnerable, lost, vastly illiterate, poor, lacking modern entreprenerial vision and knowledge etc. and thus taken for a joy ride by some of these erstwhile imperialistic powers.
You see, many of the problems in India are not just because of the British, or for that matter let me confirm, all the problems, if that's the kind of impression you already have or coming to terms with. Certainly not. India has many problems because of the mistakes its own people, leaders and whoever else living there have made since the time the British arrived in India. I would be lying otherwise.
The truth is, India is the most diverse country in the world, whatever way you choose to look @ it. Being the second most populated country in the world has helped in regards to this diversity, but it is also a product of the evolution since the ancient civilizations and the way people in India have lived over not just centuries, but millenia/ium(?).
I would also go insofar as saying that it has the most ravaged and butchered history, out of any modern-ancient nation state. There is no doubt about that, China included. Then, putting together that along with its diversity, the last thing you want is to throw in another player to try and not sort things out ... but ravage it further!!!
So what if the British left behind a lot of good legacies? They spent enough time screwing it over in the time that they were there, when they were not even invited to the party in the first place. When the British arrived in India, many Indians (Hindus) were still trying to come to terms with the Muslim invasions and empires that had been going on and created since the late 10th century A.D. And before that there was the coming to terms with the discrepencies of the caste system.
No where have the people themselves been given a chance to chalk out their own future, than in the last 55 odd years when everybody was thrown together into a single federation of states. Ideally, India needs many years to figure out the past but where is the time when we have so many problems to figure out for its present, and future?
Why are colonies like the USA, Australia etc. so far advanced today? They started from scratch essentially. Their colonizers didn't associate themselves with the past in the way we Indians have. Is that a problem? Yes, insofar as you believe we are ultimately responsible for most of the problems inherent in India today. I would like to believe that the British have played some role though in that not actually being the case. Different Indians put varying levels of the blame on the British involvement in the whole deal. I don't want to put the whole blame on them, because it's not true and it loses focus of the real issues today.
We thank the British for all the good things that they gave us, but they were a foreign nation with little understanding and knowledge of the intricacies with which much of the subcontinent's quirkiness works, and unfortunately didn't play the good guys the whole time that they were there. End result, a lot of questions being asked and angry comments being thrown by our generation when ideally...
You get the point.
Coming back to Kashmir. A peaceful solution to Kashmir is more essential to securing global security vis-a-vis the War on Terrorism, than solving the problems of Africa. Both are terrible things, but the former is a problem much because of what the white man did while involved in India, and so I think it's equally important they stick around on the sidelines and try and get it over and done with before another bin laden springs up somewhere else.
Cheers, and Good Night! :-)
PS Bahry, I've just opened a bottle of Smirnoff Ice. Feel relieved. *lol*
Re: the Tree, Van and a Drum...
Date: 2004-01-15 08:45 pm (UTC)now hear this. the brits contributed and they messed around. if we re gonna acknowledge their contributions one has to acknowledge the fact that they were so caught up in their civilization game that they lost respect for humanity. i shouldnt b the one tellin u that when rome invaded britannia it was a lil shithole that couldnt tell civilisation from barbarity. and the romans came after the indians. so please for everybodies sake stop blabberin bout civilisation. we had it before u did.
the dutch and spanish were worse. jolly good. what the hell u gettin at ..the brits werent bad cos the spaniards were worse. only the great grandson of a murderer can think that injurin someone is no biggie.
am i delighted that there is no blood shed that compares to africa in india? effin no. its terrible that they were worse off but as indians we can only speak thru our experience...somethin u aussies are scared to do ... partly because ur history is one that most non australians would consider one to be ashamed of.
oh and the wealth imbalance...um no the brits didnt take our money. it just disappeared. phew...and all of a sudden there was money in australia...a miracle truly. god is great. the imbalance is only correcting itself in countries with resources like india and china..countries like somalia are doomed to poverty.
no one ever claimed u said colonialism was perfect, i mean how in the world can someone whos proud to live in a country with australias fine heritage know perfection...well mayb a coupl of those serial killers were really good...as close to perfection as possible.
is the world better off for it..we ll never know will we..unless we re australian...cos australians..them smart ppl... plannin on becomin the americans of asia pacific.
oh and whats this i hear about u jokers wantin to become the us's deputy sheriff in the region now...really wanna get ur historical baggage off eh..dont wanna b seen as criminals any more??
hmm i dont think its a coincidence that aussies invented and mastered sledgin...like i said u can take the man off the street but u cant take the street out of the man...once a state full of criminals..always a state full of criminals... now go kiss some american ass so that u can look after this area...for a coupla months....then india and china ll take over... hopefully by then u ll b reconciled with the fact that ur foundin fathers were scum.
yeah em fightin words..but its about time someone put u aussies back in place or prison as the case may be
Hehehehehehe....
Date: 2004-01-15 11:20 pm (UTC)Re: Hehehehehehe....
Date: 2004-01-15 11:38 pm (UTC)Re: Hehehehehehe....
Date: 2004-01-16 05:32 am (UTC)Weather @ the Gabba
Date: 2004-01-16 09:04 am (UTC)-It might rain today and tomorrow but chances are we don't get any interruptions on Sunday. Besides, if I remember correctly, the Gabba does have the best drainage system for any Aussie ground, right Pappu?
Re: Weather @ the Gabba
Date: 2004-01-16 02:57 pm (UTC)Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-15 06:54 am (UTC)Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-15 02:25 pm (UTC)What about the Urdu-speaking ones? I know there's only a hundred million or so of them, but you don't want to discriminate against minorities.... And in my case, I can read the Arabic script, but Hindi letters have these horizontal lines joining all of them at the top, which makes it illegible. And don't go telling me that there are some unjoined letters - there's ALWAYS a line across the top of Hindi words. It's silly.
And besides, the trend of forcing other-language spellings into English is completely unnecessary. For some reason, the French are the supreme masters of this game, as we haven't anglicised anything of theirs (the French, on the other hand, even Frenchised Dover!). But look at the rest of Europe - Munich, Athens, Rome, etc.
So I can understand a return to Chennai for Madras, but Dilly, Kolkata, Thiruvananthapuram.... keep 'em for domestic use.
Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-15 07:15 pm (UTC)Aditi
Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-15 10:27 pm (UTC)Aditi
Re: Dili??!!
Date: 2004-01-15 11:15 pm (UTC)India's a free enough country that they can pronounce things however the want to. Most of them say Uh-mud-a-baad, as opposed to Em-the-baad while pronouncing the name of the city whose English name is Ahmedabad.
And besides, the trend of forcing other-language spellings into English is completely unnecessary.
The name would probably start off as being similar to the city's 'real' name (according to the residents of said city), and gradually the English (or French, or whatever) name would evolve.
And if the original English name wasn't similar to the city's 'real' name, things would get very confusing very fast, wouldn't they? Imagine going through life having to look through a table saying:
English<-->German<-->Hindi<-->Arabic
New York<-->Wurz<-->Sonapur<-->Halaq
we haven't anglicised anything of theirs
Bruxelles-->Brussels
And yes, I'm aware that city is in Belgium, but the name is French.
Although, yes, the French, paranoid about foreign influences on their language, seem to insist on coming up with a word for anything, rather than adopting the English one. Cultural chauvinism?
For the record, however, I don't really think it's worth the time and money it takes to rename cities in India. Also, it gets very confusing for people outside the country. The main reason any of this is being done at all is probably politicians who want nationalism to be an election issue.
Dilli
Date: 2004-01-14 04:35 am (UTC)(If it's any consolation - based on my experience with Indian builders, it's unlikely they'll have fit Olympic facilities into Delhi in eight years. I wouldn't worry about it too much.)
Jai Hind.
Aditi
Interview with Vishy
Date: 2004-01-14 05:49 am (UTC)Goodness me.
Date: 2004-01-14 02:35 pm (UTC)We may as well get it over with and introduce brightly coloured clothing for rapid chess tournaments.
Aus-Ind-Pak
Date: 2004-01-14 05:43 pm (UTC)http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2004/JAN/044180_CA_14JAN2004.html
Guess I was wrong about Sharjah tournaments....